Making a Choice – Timber Windows and Doors (3 of 3)

February 9, 2019

Seeing the Wood from the Trees

We’ve been at the consumer side of things. We understand how difficult it can be to see the wood for the trees when choosing timber windows and doors.

The market is full of sub-standard products. Many of them may look fine when first installed. But how will they look in 3, 5 or 10 years? It may not be long before they start looking tatty and require redecoration. The worst of them will start rotting well before their guarantees run out, in an industry with a terrible after-sales reputation.

However, if you ask all the questions in our previous blog ‘What Are The Elements Of Quality In Timber Windows And Doors?’ and take your time to look into the detail of each product, you’re more likely to make the right choice.

‘Like for Like’ Quotations

We’ve been to see potential Clients who’ve taken the time to listen. They look at our samples in detail. Then they visit the workshop and showroom. Then upon receiving their quote say “we’re getting other quotes”. This is usually because the products we recommend are pricier than their intended budget.

Some tell us they’re going elsewhere because they’ve had a cheaper quote, and they’ll often do this without even seeing the competitor’s product! They’ve seen ours, so surely the other company’s product is about the same, right?

Sometimes they tell us they’ve had a ‘like for like’ quote, i.e. for another product which they think has the same specification. Of these quotations we have seen, NOT ONE has ever been truly like-for-like.

Case Study 1 – Large Renovation Project

Our preferred manufacturer quoted for a large renovation project in a hardwood, engineered Sapele. It came to £48,000. This was higher than the Client’s budget, who then got another quotation for £40,000. They maintained this was a ‘like-for-like’ specification. But they’d been to both workshops and showrooms and they preferred our products, so they wanted to see what we could do with the pricing.

We requested, and they kindly sent us, the competitor’s quotation. First of all, it was for a cheaper, less durable hardwood, called Red Grandis (which we do not recommend). Changing to this timber type alone brought the price down by £4,000. Then there were the different quality glazing units, hardware etc. The Client contracted with us.

COMMON TIMBER TYPES: Class 1-4; solid & engineered; softwood & hardwood; engineered hardwood examples: Red Grandis wt 500kg +/- 20% pcm (poor consistency & durability), Sapele mahogany wt 590kg pcm (excellent consistency & durability)

Case Study 2 – Sliding Sash Windows

An even bigger project required a large number of sliding sash windows in our best (and most costly) timber, Accoya wood. The Client had seen our products, visited the workshop and showroom and wanted the best he could afford. But our price had him reeling. He’d received another ‘like-for-like’ quotation from another supplier – whose product he had not seen – for almost half the cost!

The irate Client questioned why there was such a massive difference.

Naturally bewildered, we requested sight of the other quotation. The Client was happy to do so, perhaps in an attempt to show us how unreasonable he believed our product prices were.

Not only was the other quotation for a cheap softwood, but also for a ‘mock’ sliding sash – a casement designed to look like a sliding sash.

So, on a true ‘like-for-like’ basis, we were able to offer the Client the same type of product, and similar specification, as in his other quotation for the same price. He came to us and got the product he wanted – Accoya wood sliding sash at the original quoted price!

1: A cheap ‘mock sash’ – a chunky casement window with a top hung opener (does not comply with fire escape regulations)
2: A sophisticated authentic style sliding sash, with traditional weights, profiles and decorative horns.

Case Study 3 – Window & Door Replacement

We recently visited a potential Client who was planning to replace 73 windows and doors – a large number of units, and not a straightforward installation. Most of the windows were quite small and set between stone mullions. The installation required a lot of skill and attention to detail – not your average project!

He saw our window samples and we went through all the details of what he wanted. Our quotations were within his budget. He said he was planning to visit our workshop and showroom to see first-hand the quality of our manufacturing. He said he was awaiting another quotation from a local joiner before coming to see us.

Several weeks later, after numerous failed attempts to contact him, we finally spoke and he told us he’d gone with a different company and a cheaper quotation. He was very complimentary, and said he’d been impressed by our professionalism and the samples he had seen.

But, we were astonished that, other than maintaining the other quotation was for hardwood, he couldn’t answer some basic questions put to him about our ‘rival’s’ specifications. Also, he hadn’t visited either of our respective workshops or showrooms, or seen all the products!

We reminded him of our price match promise and we would welcome the opportunity of comparing his preferred quotation specification to ours. Unfortunately he had already put down a deposit with the other company.

(See our blog ‘Timber Windows – What’s The Difference?‘ for information on what to look for before buying.)

So, he had decided to spend in the region of £45,000 without fully investigating what he was buying and how it compared to our product. The price difference was less than what it’ll cost him to redecorate 73 windows and doors from his local joiner. We’re pretty sure he’ll have to do that in less than 10 years. We think that’s just plain crazy!

Would you spend £45,000 on a new car without fully checking its specification?

(Ironically, at the end of the conversation, he said he hoped he hadn’t made a mistake.)

You Get What You Pay For

To add further complication to the mix, we used to believe the common adage “you get what you pay for”. Until recently.

We visited a Client whose home had a large number of new windows fitted by a company with a household name. He wanted them all ripped out and was refusing to pay.

He’d signed a contract after seeing a particular sample timber window. But it turns out the windows fitted were a completely different product made by a different manufacturer!

The installation was abysmal and a majority of the windows had been incorrectly measured. It was the worst we’d ever seen (enough material for a future blog).

Our quotation for replacements in the best timber (Accoya wood) was only about 10% more than the poor quality softwood products (with MDF trims and resin beading – not even 100% wood!) he was desperate to get rid of.

The household name ignored his protestations and legal letters for 9 months, before he decided to go ahead with us. Thankfully he’d only put down a small deposit. But every aspect of his contact with this decades old company everyone has heard of was beyond contempt.

Conclusion

It’s a minefield folks!

Make sure you are well informed before parting with your money. Don’t take anything that the company representative tells you (including us!) for granted, and do your research.

Checklist – make sure you do ALL the following for ALL quotations:

See samples of all the product types you’re interested in

Quotations: these are often vague, so insist on detailed written specifications

Warranties: check the small print – e.g. does a 10 year warranty cover everything?

Deposits: are your deposits protected and insurance backed? Who by?

Visit the showroom: anyone can have an impressive showroom, but where are the products made?

Visit the workshop: if you can’t, the product is probably imported

Seek testimonials: is the work on the company’s website their own, or are the images ‘borrowed’? Is the company willing to put you in touch with any of their previous Clients?

Comprehensively compare all the above

Finally…..

Your budget may not run to the best UK manufactured timber products, most of which will last a lifetime. So you might consider opting for aluminium, or – if your budget is even more restricted – a high quality uPVC or composite. The latter should last up to 25 years – unfortunately, considerably longer than a large number of cheaper timber products available today.

Timber windows Harrogate

Timber – almost any traditional/contemporary design; warm; low maintenance; lifespan 70yrs+ (depending on timber/manufacturer)

Aluminium windows Harrogate

Aluminium – contemporary homes, limited designs; lifestan 25yrs+ (depending on range/manufacturer)

uPVC windows Harrogate

uPVC – top ranges mimic timber; suit traditional/contemporary homes; warm; low maintenance; lifespan up to 25 yrs (depending on range/manufacturer)

www.northcountryuk.com

Robert Goldsbrough

Robert Goldsbrough

Robert has been developing and building period & contemporary homes since 1995, and has installed all types of external home improvement products.